The Health Benefits of Drinking Matcha Every Day
In this episode, we chat with Elise Museles about why we began to drink matcha green tea daily, the health benefits we’ve experienced drinking matcha regularly, and how it’s changed our lives for the better. There is a reason that monks sipped on matcha before mediation, and Samurai warriors consumed it before battle. It brings relaxed, focused alertness and is definitely a life changer. Elise Museles is a certified eating psychology and nutrition expert, creator of the Food Story Method and platform, and host of the popular podcast Once Upon a Food Story.
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TRANSCRIPT FOR SEASON 1, EPISODE 7 | The Health Benefits of Drinking Matcha Every Day
Speaker: Welcome to the Matcha Guardians podcast, brought to you by matcha.com. Here, we focus on the biggest trending health topics of our time, featuring the greatest and upcoming wellness advocates. Now, here are the Matcha Guardians, certified nutritionist, Diana Weil, and medical journalist, Elara Hadjipateras.
Diana: Hello, and welcome to this week's episode.
Elara: We're so excited to have Elise Museles back on the Matcha Guardians Podcast. If you weren't able to tune into the previous episode we did with Elise, Elise is amazing, jack-of-all-trades, but specializes in holistic health and integrative healing, specifically focused on people's food stories. Today on the podcast, we were thinking we're going to move past the focus of food stories, and we're going to focus on all of our mutual love of matcha.
One of the ways we're connected with the wonderful Elise is that she is an influencer that we work with at matcha.com. Diana has done several Instagram lives with her. She's created some amazing content and delicious, very aesthetically pleasing recipes. We thought, who better person to come on and just tell us some of her matcha secrets on the podcast.
Diana: Welcome back, Elise.
Elise: Oh, it's so good to be here. You know we could talk matcha all day long. I just had mine. Feeling really good, focused, and excited to share my secrets with all your listeners.
Diana: Before we jump into matcha, I just am curious, how do you feel about being called an influencer?
Elise: I feel like that word could potentially have not the best connotations, but I like to inspire people to help them feel better in their minds and bodies. I love working with Matcha Kari because it's not just about really high-quality matcha. It's also embracing a whole lifestyle, which we're going to talk about today, too. I'm proud to wear that badge of honor right now when it comes to Matcha Kari.
Diana: You do genuinely influence. You have a lot of influence on people's matcha journeys, which I think is very cool. It's a good title.
Elise: It's really interesting because every day someone will say to me, "I haven't had coffee for 10 days," or, "I am excited to try the matcha you always share." It's really nice to know that I'm helping to spread the matcha love because it has been such a huge part of my food and drink story. Why not share something that I know can help make people feel really good?
Elara: Elise, that brings me to the question of, where does matcha fit into your food story. When did it come into the picture and end up being this amazing daily ritual that you look forward to?
Elise: I love that you asked that question. I'm going to peel it back to when I was in law school. I wasn't drinking matcha then, but I had these horrendous headaches in my first year of law school, to the point where I went to the emergency room because they were just so debilitating. I couldn't think. I thought I was dying. Awful, awful headaches.
Then fast forward to the winter break in between the first and second semester of first year of law school, which is the most grueling year. I went to the dentist and the dentist said to me, "Oh my gosh, you are really grinding your teeth. You're not just grinding your teeth with TMJ, but this is bad." The dentist took me off of all of caffeine.
At that point in time, I was never this huge coffee drinker, but I dabbled with it in college. Then I did it probably recklessly in law school to stay up in studying, not really thinking about caffeine staying in your system. It just impacted when I was going to sleep. I was already anxious, and then I was adding caffeine into the equation through coffee. I went off all caffeine, all of it. Just cold turkey, no tea, nothing.
Then maybe 10 years later, I had been reading about just plain green tea, which, Elara, you've shared your story with me. You started with green tea also. I was like, "I'm at a different place. I want to see if I can get these benefits." I became a big tea drinker. I already liked tea, but then this was my foray into tea with some caffeine.
Then, I think it was about 10 years ago, I had started reading about matcha. A that point in time, I didn't know anything about high quality, what I know now about matcha. I started having matcha, and I liked it, but I would get these headaches. Not from grinding my teeth. I Googled, that was a side effect of matcha because it was new-- it's not new. It's ancient, obviously, Japanese tradition, but it was newer in American culture to find it in places. This is before I started making it on my own.
There was a thing called a matcha headache. That comes from having matcha that isn't tested for all the heavy metals and the things that can be in our teas. I went on this quest for higher-quality matcha, and then I found Matcha Kari eventually. When was Matcha Kari founded?
Elara: I think seven (years) at this point.
Elise: It was at the very beginning. One of my friends, who is friends with, actually, your father, Diana, told me about it. I was like, "I trust this matcha." The rest is history. Now, we can get into how I use it in my life. I feel like it's more of a lifestyle than just like, "Oh, I'm going to have this cup of green matcha tea powder." That it's more about also the ritual and just the whole experience of having that “me time” set out every day, where I know I can take a break from what else is going on. I love it. My days when I don't have matcha, I feel incomplete.
Ever since I started drinking the Matcha Kari matcha, I feel really great. I don't have any sort of TMJ. I don't get headaches from it. I know that high-quality matcha makes a huge difference. Then we can also get into how the L-theanine, the amino acid that helps buffer the caffeine, is so much gentler on your system without having that quick rise and crash. I'm okay with the matcha, even though I'm caffeine-sensitive.
Elara: Elise, when you mention that you had a period of drinking green tea before you transitioned all the way to matcha, it just reminds me a little bit about how matcha fits into my own food story. Abridged version- I was working at ABC News doing overnight shifts when I first graduated from college. I started out drinking a lot of lattes from Starbucks, specifically just because it was around the corner. It was a nice way to provide a break from work. I'd go out with a colleague, get my latte, come back, sit at the desk.
Then I transitioned to sugar free Red Bull, just because it was available. It was free in the office. I found that it provided a little bit more of an energy boost like a coffee but without as much anxiety. Though over time, I started having some digestional problems from the Red Bull. Eventually, it got to the point where I had a couple fainting episodes, where I would just be walking my dog in the park, I would be sitting and having breakfast, doing very mundane activities, not exerting myself, and I would almost have this feeling of vertigo or magnetism towards the ground, and I would just fall towards the ground. A bit alarming.
I started going to a lot of different specialists, doing all these scans. They were trying to figure out what was wrong with me. At the end of the day, they obviously said, "Look, it's not normal to be working an overnight shift. It's not normal to be working 15, 16 hours in a row and be pumping yourself with any sort of caffeine, let alone Red Bull or coffee." They recommended that I stop drinking coffee, stop drinking Red Bull and try an alternative caffeine source, which was green tea, due to the L-theanine content.
Elise: That's awesome, but that's so scary, too. The fainting and not knowing what was causing it, that's really scary.
Elara: That's just like your migraines. It's crazy to think that these simple things that we do on a day-to-day basis could be having such a big impact on our health. Then at the same time, you take a step back, and it's like, "Of course, it could be impacting us in this large-scale way," because it accumulates. A daily habit does accumulate and can lead to disastrous results. Have you ever had anything that, Diana?
Diana: No, I just get overwhelming anxiety when I drink too much coffee, and it really messes with my sleep. Even if I drink coffee at like noon or 1:00 PM, I won't sleep. I have-- it's almost a panic attack feeling. I do get overwhelming anxiety, but I've never had headaches or scary fainting spells.
Elise, I am curious. If people have migraines, one thing that can be helpful is pulling them off caffeine entirely and then having a little bit of caffeine to help with headaches. Because caffeine is a vasoconstrictor, so it makes your blood cells smaller, which can help those headaches. I'm curious, and this is totally a side tangent, but I'm just wondering, have you ever tried that with caffeine? Have you ever noticed that if you have a headache, does matcha help with that?
Elise: I don't want to jinx anything right now, but I agree with you. I know my husband gets migraines. When you look at the medication that he takes for it, it has caffeine in it. I forgot the name of the medicine. Anyways, a lot of migraine headache medication has caffeine in it. I have not played around with that. The thing I don't want to jinx is I used to get a lot more headaches. I don't want to jinx it, but luckily, I'm not getting them right now.
Diana: Knock on wood
Elara: Knock on wood.
Elise: I have a desk that's wood right here. I haven't really tested it out, but my approach would be more is like to try to figure out the root cause of the headache as opposed to covering it up with the caffeine. If you are getting headaches, are you dehydrated, are you sleeping enough? Is it a stress headache like mine? Stress probably and anxiety caused those headaches that I was having in law school. I would want to look at the root cause first before just jumping to caffeine. That would be a good instant relief before you dive into why.
Diana: Super interesting. I have a question for Elise and then Elara, I'm going to ask you the same question, and I want you guys to be honest. Did you like the taste of matcha when you first had it?
Elise: I love the taste of matcha now. In hindsight, I didn't love it as much as I love it now, but I feel like Elara does, that nothing compares to the matcha that I make at home. Whenever I go, and I hate to say this because it is really nice to be social and meet people for matcha because I'm not a coffee drinker, but I'm always disappointed. I love the taste of matcha now. I was intrigued by matcha back then. Is that a good way of putting it? Because I didn't hate it, or I wouldn't have kept drinking it.
I like to enjoy what I'm eating or drinking, but I wasn't like, "Wow, I can't wait to have this." It definitely was more acquired. For your listeners who are on the verge of jumping into matcha camp or not, I would say you have to try different kinds and more than once and see what style works for you. You might want more of a latte or more of straight up. It's all about experimenting and finding whatever's right for you at that moment.
Diana: I think that's such a good answer. Elara, what about you?
Elara: I didn't like it. I can tell you, I remember very distinctly the first time I had matcha was actually with Diana and her dad in Tucson. I wasn't feeling well, and Diana's dad whipped up a traditional bowl of matcha for me. The bamboo whisk came out, and it looked like this bright green almost syrup. Just a couple of sips, and it had a very strong umami flavor. It was probably very high-quality matcha, but I didn't find it to be that palatable. I did not enjoy it, and I did not end up having matcha for about 10 years.
Diana: Oh, wow.
Elara: I think that when I introduce matcha to people now, I really try to make sure to do it in a more familiar form. Instead of say having a traditional bowl of matcha, which I'd say requires more of an acquired taste, I go the latte route. I say, "Hey, do you enjoy cappuccinos? Do you enjoy a latte, or maybe do you like hot chocolate?" Something like that. A cozy drink, chai tea.
I'll prepare a matcha latte for them where I use either brown sugar as a sweetener, maple syrup or honey. I use a really whole-fat milk, just regular whole milk or maybe lactose-free whole milk because my husband's lactose intolerance, so it's what's in the house, and I'll add a little bit of cinnamon on top. I find that that goes over really well, and people tend to be like, "Oh, wow, this matcha tastes a lot better than the other times I've had it."
I think another mistake people tend to make when they first start preparing matcha at home is that they boil water. Because it's almost like we're programmed when it comes to making tea to boil water, and then you throw in the tea bag, and you steep it. With matcha, that not only makes it have a more bitter astringent taste, but it also breaks down some of the bioavailable nutrients. Not that it's going to be completely unhealthy and just ruin it, but it's definitely going to degrade it to a degree, which I think people don't tend to realize. You learn through trial and error. There is a lot of a trial-and-error process with matcha-making at home, I'd say.
Elise: Then the other thing is you can change the way you do things. I used to make my lattes in the blender. I don't know why I did that, but that's the way I did it. Then I even bought a stainless blender canister container so that I wasn't putting hot liquids in plastic, so into the blender. Then now I'm like, "I don't want to have to do 15 steps," and I simplified the process. I think like you can evolve your matcha story. In the summer, you might want more ice matcha and in the cooler months, you want it hot. It's just like anything.
You can do what feels right to you at the moment with matcha and not feel stuck in your ways. One thing you mentioned about the heat, I think that's also something that's like you have to find your rhythm with it because I don't like lukewarm matcha, but I also don't want it to be so hot that you're degrading the nutritional profile. I now use one of the electric kettles that you actually can see the display of the temperature of the water.
Elara: Those are a game changer.
Diana: Yes.
Elise: Yes. Diana, you haven't really shared whether you loved the taste of matcha the first time you had it. Also how long ago was it?
Diana: No, I hated it. That's why I wanted to ask you guys, because I hated the taste of matcha, and it took me up until maybe just a couple years ago to like it. Which is why I wanted to ask you both because I think it's really important for anyone who is maybe wanting to try matcha, if they don't love their first sip, that it's okay to keep trying. I think that there's a rule-- Elise, I know that you have kids, so correct me, you probably know this better than I do. When you are introducing kids to vegetables or to new foods, I think that there's a rule that they have to be exposed to at something like 10 times.
I think it's important as adults that we give ourselves that same grace period when we try something new that if you don't like it the first time, try it again. Try it a different style, make it with a little bit more water, try it hot, try it cold, make it a latte. I think that all of that is really good advice. One thing that you said that really stuck out to me is that matcha is a lifestyle for you. I'm so curious, what does that mean and why do you think that matcha is different from coffee? Is it because of the lifestyle? What is the ritual around it?
Elise: I wonder, since I've never really been a true coffee drinker, if it is a lifestyle for some people, but for me, the ritual of having my matcha, that I do daily, is sacred time. It's when I don't look at my phone, except maybe to film something for Matcha Kari, but I really try not to look at my phone. I set aside time in the day where I get into the sifting and the whisking and the slow pouring of the water and just everything-- the whole experience of creating my matcha latte feels like it's just my time. Nobody can interfere with that. It's a really nice break in the day. It's grounding, and then it also gives me energy.
It feels energizing because I can take a pause and think about how do I want the rest of the day to look and not be just reactive with emails and phone and all of that. Why do I think it's a lifestyle? Because it's part of my morning routine. It's something that I look forward to every single day that I really do what I need to do to prioritize it and make sure that it happens. I rarely skip my matcha because I'm too busy. Because that's when I need it most when I'm too busy, because otherwise then you go through the rest of your day on autopilot and reacting to everything.
I think that's why I said it's a lifestyle. Do I think there's a big matcha culture? I think it's growing. Something that we've discussed, it's not coffee or matcha. Some people can be both coffee and matcha. I happen to be just matcha, but it's not like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not going to talk to the coffee drinkers or understand whatever their practices are." I think it's growing because it's showing up also.
You can get a matcha latte in almost every- or different style matcha all around the country now. You know it's not just to certain progressive or cafes or coffee shops in the know. That shows me that there's a growing interest. Also, this is rooted in tradition, too. While we may not know everything about how the Japanese make a ceremony out of it, there is something that-- I use the word sacred, and that probably comes from knowing that there's tradition around matcha.
Elara: One of the things as you talk, Elise, that resonates with me is this sense of self-experience I have with my matcha. It's this daily meditation for me, it's me time. I don't hear the dogs barking. I'm not trying to find a pair of socks for my husband. I'm not rushing off anywhere. I'm not checking anything on my phone. It's just me time. I don't know if maybe it's been impacted by COVID, and people having a lot more time for self-reflection and isolation that has maybe led to people being more open to matcha just because they've had more time at home to explore different avenues of self-help and just being more aware of their mental health than they used to be.
During the shutdown, the lockdown, people weren't going out and meeting each other for coffee. Everyone started making their coffee at home by themselves or making their matcha at home. I guess for me, you're just making me think my matcha ritual is very much an introverted practice, but I would love to see there be more of a shift in the US as far as tea culture and tea culture becoming more community-based and socially based the way that coffee is.
The way that I used to drink coffee, for example, when I was at ABC, and I would go out of the office with a couple colleagues and just shoot the breeze and head over across the street to Starbucks. I would love for us to get to that stage with matcha in the US where you're able to go to the cafe around the corner and not be disappointed by a lukewarm or bitter matcha and be able to enjoy it with a friend.
Because I do think that that's what we're missing a bit as far as US tea culture goes. Not that I don't think we're not heading in that direction, but it's like we're stuck at this point of people really enjoying their matcha ritual at home but not on a social scale necessarily. Even though tea to me is this universal sign of welcome and community.
Elise: I love that. I always correct when people will say, "Do you want to meet for coffee?" I'll say, "Yes, we could have coffee and matcha at--" I'll add in the matcha, but it's just really just changing-- it's almost a knee-jerk reaction to say, "Let's meet for coffee." Not coffee and tea or coffee and matcha.
It's funny that you mentioned this community because I have the entrepreneurial brain, and I've always thought about always in the last few years, it would be so amazing to have a matcha house almost where it isn't just serving matcha but really having workshops and creating community experiences and something that feels very ritual and ceremonial and having it be a gathering place.
Even teaching people how they could make it themselves. I don't have any plans right now to do this, but it was just something that in my brain I'm like, "It would just be such a really nice place to gather for people."
Elara: Absolutely. I think that's a great idea. We should come up with that. [chuckles]
Elise: I think we should, too. We have tea houses, but I think it's different. I would love to have a matcha tea house, not just a tea house.
Elara: This goes back to your whole point of matcha being a lifestyle. It's more than a tea house. It's more than just a beverage. It touches on all different things and speaks to the name of our podcast, The Matcha Guardians. It's not necessarily all about matcha tea that we're talking about, even though we're focused on that in the episode today, but just finding these different things that you can do on a daily basis or regularly that help you ground yourself to rise up and to feel elevated and creative.
Elise: I will add in about matcha being lifestyle. I feel like my matcha practice from the mental health aspect and also the physical, just the nutrients and matcha, the way that I have this calm focused energy that it helps me do everything else better. It's noticeable on the days when I don't have matcha.
Elara: Question that just popped into my head. We're going a little off-kilter, and Diana, Elise, it's for both of you. Diana, if you want to answer first. We're going to do a little bit of matcha myth-busting here. Do we feel like matcha has this connotation, at least in US culture, for being a little bougie, for being a little luxurious, for being this expensive habit that maybe isn't as attainable as coffee?
Maybe everybody's super healthy over in California drinking it, but maybe it doesn't feel as accessible to someone that's working a 9:00 to 5:00 or a blue-collar job. What are your thoughts?
Diana: Yes. I'm so glad you brought this up because I wanted to dive into the financial aspect of matcha too because I think in our work, the matcha guardians, and in my own private practice, one of the things that I'm so passionate about is making-- I know, Elise, you feel the same way, is making sure that health is accessible. I just don't think that only the wealthy deserve to be healthy.
I am really interested in this taboo. It's always taboo to talk about money, but let's dive into it. I think both of you have broken down the numbers, so I'm going to let you guys talk about the actual cost breakdown. I think when you look at it, it actually doesn't end up being-- it shouldn't be just bougie. There are ways to make matcha affordable. For example, we have different blends at Matcha Kari, and some of them are quite expensive, and they are the best of the best.
They are for special occasions, but then we also have blends that are designed for everyday drinking multiple cups. I think going for one of maybe the lower-cost blends is a great idea. While I am such a fan of having my correct matcha tools, you can also just start. You don't need things to be perfect. I think we all agree that clumpy matcha is the worst, so I think having some sort of sifter is helpful, but you can go to a kitchen store and get a simple sifter for just a few dollars.
This doesn't need to be a very expensive thing. I love that Elise was making it in her blender. I know, Elara, you will put it in your water bottle and shake it up. I think that there's-- in tea culture, and I know that we all talk about rituals and morning rituals, and in the health space, in the ritual space, there can be this idea of perfection, I think that we're drinking tea, and we get up early, and we make our beds, and we're all perfect.
That is just total BS and doesn't need to be true, and you can enjoy matcha whatever way you like it. If that includes dumping a tablespoon of sugar in it, I'm not going to say-- maybe we wean off the sugar eventually, but it's okay to enjoy things the way that you want to. It's okay to not have the most expensive matcha or all of the tools. I think just get started and try it and dump it in your water bottle and shake it up.
I really believe that matcha should be and is accessible to most people. We just have to get a little bit creative. Elise, we talked about this a little bit before we hit record. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about this subject.
Elise: I agree with everything that you said. To Elara's point, I feel like because there weren't as many brands making and bringing matcha over from Japan that went-- it was initially more popular here. It was more expensive, which makes sense. That may be where the bougie comes from, but as time goes on, it's much more mainstream. Now, Starbucks sells matcha, you can get it in an airport.
I think that it is a little less bougie than it was, but what bothers me is when people, influencers, whoever is showing that you have to put this adaptogen in and have these tools or to Diana's point about the perfection with it, you can make the simplest matcha, you can just shake it up with your preferred temperature of water like you do in the shaker and add your whatever kind of milk or dairy alternative that you like, and you're done.
Ice matcha is so easy to make. You don't really need a whole lot to make an ice matcha. I feel like if we just think about what we want from it, we want to get the matcha, we want to have the highest quality matcha that we can afford, then it isn't a thing reserved just to people who can have the highest budget to use towards their food and extras. I do think it's expensive to get matcha out though. That's something that, because I've been traveling more, of course, I like making it home, and it is really expensive now. I have sticker shock sometimes when I'll go in LA, I'm like, "Are you kidding me? Is this real?" [chuckles] I save so much money by making it at home.
Elara: I think the same thing can be said for getting coffee-
Elise: True.
Elara: -out as well. When I was living in New York City for example, and I was really part of that, you go out, you meet someone for coffee, you meet someone for drinks, it really adds up. Now, it's more expensive than ever. I think whether it's a matcha latte or a vanilla latte, you're looking at around $5, $6 for a medium or large-sized latte. To just add that upright on a daily basis over the course of a month, that's a lot.
When you're looking at say, buying a matcha tin that's around, let's just say $40, it's going to be a lot better cost-wise to actually make your matcha at home, which is also the case. I agree with making your coffee at home, but I will make the argument that there is less of a cleanup, and it's a lot quicker to make a cup of matcha than a cup of coffee. Every morning when I wake up because my husband's a coffee drinker.
He has his Moccamaster. He has to put in his water. He puts in his little filter. He grinds his beans manually, which I'm not going to deny it, I love the smell of coffee beans. Doesn't mean that I like drinking it. He grinds his beans, and honestly, by the time he puts his grinded beans in his Moccamaster, I'm sipping on my matcha. He always inevitably is like, "Oh, can I have a couple sips?" While he's waiting to drink his coffee, by the time the coffee drips down and is in the pot and is ready to grab, which I don't think a lot of people realize.
Elise: No, I love all those points, and I especially appreciate what you said about the tin because it feels like it's harder for people to invest upfront like, oh, $40 or even more. You have to break it down and say over the course of two weeks, that money is blown if you've gone out, and the matcha will last you for the month. It isn't as expensive now. It is more accessible. I do think it's less bougie and that I would like to see matcha as mainstream as possible so that, like Diana said, it's not just for people who can have big budgets that it just makes sense to make matcha a part of your routine if you want.
Diana: Someone's listening to this, and they're like, "Okay, maybe you have convinced me to start drinking matcha," do you have a few tips of like, "This is how to get started. This is what I recommend doing." What are your just most basic tips for someone who's getting into matcha?
Elise: Well, I love the conversation that we had earlier about not feeling stuck in one way or another and to be open to exploring what style of matcha works for you, whether it's a hot or iced or whether it's straight up matcha or latte style. I love the whole idea of just saying, "I'm going to try it. I'm just going to try it, and I'm going to try a few different ways and see--" you don't have to get stuck in one way but just try different ways and see what your preference is.
I also think that a high-quality matcha, whatever you can afford, whatever's in your budget, is really important because as I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I did get headaches from lower-quality matcha. Just like anything, you want to be able to make sure you're not putting metals or unnecessary toxins in your body. Unfortunately, green tea or tea can contain it. There are bad news, but that's the truth. I know that there are several brands, including Matcha Kari that does a lot of third-party testing just to make sure that what you're ingesting.
Because you're drinking the whole tea leaf, you know that it's reduced into a powder, not sifting it through a bag, you want to even be more careful about the quality of your matcha. That is something that I'm not going to waver on that, that whatever is in your budget, the best quality that you can afford makes the most sense. That's one thing. I just think being open and also having fun with it, there's that whole idea of like, "Oh, I have to make Instagram worthy pretty perfect." No, you don't.
You just need to enjoy it and then let your body be open to receiving all the incredible benefits. For me, matcha shared with someone else is also a really nice way to connect. If you come to my house, there's a 99% chance of matcha happening. I share it with everyone. Especially if they say, "Well, oh, I'm a coffee drinker," I'm like, "Okay, that's fine, try my matcha, too."
Diana: I love the idea of just welcoming someone with matcha. We don't need to dive too deep into the science behind all of it because I'm actually going to put Elara on the hot seat because she's done more research on matcha than anyone I've ever known. Elise, I'm just curious, how does matcha make you feel? Why do you recommend matcha? Why do you love it?
Elise: I love it because of that calm, focused energy. I have done…I’m not a biohacker, I haven't gone into a lab to test, but I've done my own testing, and I've seen how I feel on days that I don't have matcha. Again, it could be partially because of the ritual too that helps me mentally to have that quiet time and alone time or the me time when I'm having my matcha. I love it for the calm, focused energy. I also think that it's such a concentrated way to get nutrients without taking a pill, and I'm all for that, too. It is a mood booster.
It's weird because it's calming and energizing at the same time. I don't know about anything else that I do. I do things that can help soothe my nervous system. I'll feel more relaxed, and then I'm like, "Okay, I got to get up and go on with my day." I feel like matcha is this really unique balance of both. It's calming, and mentally it helps me really pay attention to what's next.
I also feel this very uplifting energy that isn't, like we talked about earlier, the amino acid l-theanine can help you feel that without that initial spike and then out crash. When something makes you feel that you want to keep eating it, doing it and repeating it day after day, and that's what matcha is for me.
Diana: Oh, that's so good. It really is. I think that there's a reason we're so obsessed with it, and it's because it tastes good, but it also just feels really good. It's just a great thing to do for your body every day.
Elara: Before I know we touched on the idea of opening up a matcha cafe. Interestingly enough, it is something that I have explored. I've crunched the numbers, so to speak, so I wanted to share them with you all. When you go out to Starbucks or the cafe around the corner, you're looking at spending around $5 to $6 on a latte. I thought, "Okay, what would the cost of a matcha latte be in comparison to a normal cafe latte?" To break it down, if you are using the ceremonial Barista matcha that we sell at matcha.com, the cost of two grams is around $0.26.
Then with the average cost of milk being $4.16 at a gallon, and let's say you're going to use 10 ounces of milk, you're adding on another $0.32. If we're going to be serving it in a disposable cup, sleeve a lid, write the whole deal, 31 cents. Total beverage cost, you're looking at $0.89, right? If we're selling our matcha latte for $5, our profit per matcha latte that we sell would be $4.11. Just to put that in perspective, if we were going to run a cafe, we could make it very profitable if we were selling high-quality matcha.
It doesn't have to be low-quality matcha. To just flip it in terms of just making and preparing your matcha at home, and you're not using the reusable cup, the lid, all that stuff, it's huge savings. You're looking at if you're maybe drinking two matchas per day like I drink, you're probably spending around $1.50 per day, which I would argue is a lot cheaper than spending $5 per day.
Diana: That is incredible, and this is why you're my girl. I love that you-- Elara will dive into the nitty gritty and give us all the numbers. I bet if you look at it per cost, I bet coffee's probably, especially if you're putting half and half or cream in it. I bet it's right around the same. I am shocked that it's only $0.89. That's incredible.
Elise: Wow.
Elara: It's similar. Then when I compare, say I know that we talk about, okay, with the traditional matcha tea, ceremonial, with all of the tools and accessories, it is an added cost, but then compare how much I'm spending on a bamboo whisk or an electric frother and a sifter. Those to me are really the essential tools you need besides your matcha powder. You can use a spoon.
You don't necessarily need a spoon, you don’t necessarily need a bamboo stick in order to scoop your matcha. Of course, I do recommend it. Compare that to an espresso machine at home.
Diana: A coffee grinder.
Elara: A top-of-the-line espresso machine, a coffee grinder. I think my husband spent, dare I say, over $200 on this coffee grinder that he needs to use his hand. I understand that it's a whole part of his ritual, but when you combine the cost of a coffee grinder and then an espresso machine or even just a filtered coffee machine, it does add up.
That being said, I will play devil's advocate and note that after about two years’ time, if you're a regular matcha drinker, you are probably going to need to replace your bamboo whisk.
Elise: Oh, yes.
Elara: That's totally the case, which is cool, but a bamboo whisk is less than $30.
Diana: You got to replace those espresso machines and those coffee grinders.
Elara: Yes. Those need work as well. In my mind, I think that there's a common misconception of matcha being bougie and not affordable when in reality I think it's actually more accessible than coffee, and you can prepare it with cold water. I think a lot of people don't realize that. You can get all of the great health benefits in doing so. I was actually at the gym this morning, and I gave a matcha tin to a friend of mine there who was talking about, "Oh, my daughter, she loves matcha. I really want to try it.
I really want to make it part of my normal routine." I give her the tin, and I cannot tell you how many times what she said, I've heard from other people. I hand her the tin, and she looks at it, she's like, "Oh, thank you, thank you." Then she looks back up at me, and she goes, "So, how do I make it? What do I need to make it?" I was like, "All right, do you like cappuccinos? Do you like lattes?" She's like, "Yes." I went, "How do you usually make it?" She goes, "Oh, I froth my almond milk, and then I'll throw in the shot of espresso."
I went, "Okay, just think of treating matcha the same way, except with matcha, instead of discarding the coffee beans, you're actually going to be consuming the powder." Like you said before, Elise, with matcha compared to say green tea, you're not just steeping it, you're consuming the whole leaf which is why you have so many benefits. You're going to take your powder, just use a teaspoon, maybe half a teaspoon to start because we said maybe people will be put off by the flavor. Put a little bit of water.
It should not be boiling. It could be room temperature, or it could be steaming. It can be whatever you want. Mix it together. Use an electric frother if you happen to have one, or I even tell people, if you have one of those kitchen whisks that you'd use for pancake batter, you can use those too if you have the right cup. You do an Indian style, rubbing your hands together with the handle of the whisk, and it will work. Then you just take that and pour it on top of your hot milk and voila.
Elise: Love it. I'm so glad you talked about that because while you were talking about how cost-effective it is to make matcha at home, I was thinking that a lot of people don't attempt it because they don't know what to do. It seems intimidating, and I think understanding that it can be so simple is really important because people don't know where to start. I'm glad you shared how easy it is to make a matcha latte.
Elara: This goes back to Diana's point of this is not a pursuit of perfection. It's experimental. Have fun with it. You don't have to do everything by the book. Maybe what works for you is going to be different than what your friend does. That's okay. It can be enjoyed hot; it can be enjoyed cold. I think, Elise, before we hit the record button, you mentioned how when you first started drinking matcha, you added it as a smoothie ingredient.
Elise: Oh, yes, I did, because I didn't really know what to do or how to make it on my own, but I knew that I wanted to feel the benefits, and that just seemed like an easy way to incorporate matcha. I did put it into a smoothie back then. Now, I do use it in baking, but my favorite way is to drink it when it really comes back to, and I feel a little bit like a matcha purist. It's fun to create recipes, add it to chia pudding and do all of that. At the end of the day, it's the ritual, and it's just having that time and space every day to enjoy it.
Diana: Elise, you are just such a ray of sunshine. You always have sunflowers around you. That's the way that I know Elara and I-- you just are a sunflower, and we've been so lucky to have you on not one episode but two episodes, just sharing so much knowledge with us. I'm hoping that we can close this out. I'm hoping that I can get two answers out of you, but I'm just wondering, what is your go-to? You've kind of touched on it a little bit, but your go-to drink for matcha and your go-to food. How do you incorporate matcha into food, your favorite recipe?
Elise: Okay, so my go-to drink is hot always. I did create one ice drink with the Matcha Kari blend that I absolutely love, and it's super easy to make. My go-to drink is the Ceremonial Matcha Kari matcha. I use a teaspoon, and then I use an electric-- I sipped it. No clumpy matcha for me. For me that's really-- I use cashew milk, and I have a little spoon of maple just to take away the bitterness but not to sweeten it really, just a tiny bit.
That's what I drink. If you ask me in a few months, I might tell you something different, but that's my drink right now. Then for food, I don't use matcha a lot in cooking, but I would say that I prefer sweet, matcha with sweet more than savory. That's probably because I haven't experimented with matcha and savory dishes as much. I do love a good chia pudding, which always helps for blood sugar balance and getting those good healthy fats and brain-boosting fats. Then when you add in a teaspoon of matcha, you're over the top with great brain food.
Diana: Amazing. That sounds so good.
Elara: Diana, what about you? Now you have my brain, my brain is working. I'm like, I want to hear some more. Right now, what's your go-to recipe and drink?
Diana: Recipe? I made these white chocolate chip macadamia matcha cookies-
Elise: Oh, my God.
Diana: -that are still I think my favorite. I also did a matcha biscotti that I loved, so that was really fun. I have been trying to experiment a little bit more with savory matcha. I will say it's just easier to do sweet, but I think like I want to experiment with matcha noodles and like a matcha pesto. Stay tuned for those.
Elara: I tend to add matcha to any sweet recipes because it makes me feel like I'm giving it a healthy spin. Anytime I'm making cookies at home or cinnamon buns, something like that, I tend to just throw a little bit of matcha powder in. The one thing I will note is that I also tried to experiment with some savory recipes. I tried to do a classic green eggs and ham. That was unfortunately not a success, but I'm still working on it. [chuckles]
Diana: I love that.
Elise: You just reminded me about a year ago I had matcha sourdough. I didn't make it.
Elara: Ooh.
Elise: That was amazing, to combine matcha and sourdough, and it was really beautiful. Not deep green but a really light, pretty green. I have to say that that was a good way to have a savory matcha recipe.
Diana: Yum. I just wanted a quick note here. If anyone's listening who wants to experiment with matcha baking or cooking, which I highly recommend, it's very fun. I would recommend choosing a culinary grade matcha rather than one of the ceremonial drinking grades. The culinary grades are going to-- it's not bitter, but they do have a slightly stronger flavor.
They're a little bit more affordable as well, which is great if you don't want to put the best of the best in when you're cooking, but the stronger flavor pulls through a little bit better in cooking. If you use a ceremonial blend in cookies, it's hard to detect that matcha flavor. Anyone out there listening, if you want to bake with matcha, I would recommend our culinary grade.
Elise: Good tip.
Elara: Elise, It has been such a pleasure speaking with you on the podcast today and talking all things matcha. Honestly, my head is just moving in all different directions. I can't wait to have you back again to continue the conversation and just maybe go into different matcha recipes the next time we talk. Elise is an amazing recipe creator. That was something that we just hit the tip of the iceberg today. I'd be really excited to circle back on. If you have any ideas as a listener as far as something we could discuss with Elise, please drop it in the comments below. We love to hear from you. Elise, thank you once again. It's been such a joy having you, and we hope to have you back soon.
Elise: I just want to thank both of you, Elara and Diana. I love what you're doing. I love that you're matcha guardians and that you're helping people ground down to rise up. It's what we need. It's such a good feeling. I know matcha gives us that, but there are also so many other conversations that you're going to be having that can do that. I'm so honored to be your guest and also have you on my podcast. You'll have to link to that episode because it was such a good conversation. Thank you again for having me.
Diana: Yes. Can you just quickly tell everyone where they can find you?
Elise: Oh, sure. My website is my name, elisemuseles.com. I have some recipes and vlogs and a lot of information that you can learn about food story. My podcast is Once Upon a Food Story where Elara and Diana have been guest recently, and then I am on Instagram as my name, Elise Museles, and all the other social media platforms, but Instagram is the most. I also have this food mood bundle that I think could really help a lot of people. You can find it on my website. It's just the elisemuseles.com/bundle/, but it's all about the food mood connection. We touched a lot on that today on how matcha is part of helping us feel more connected to our body and improve our mood. That's where you can find me.
Diana: Thank you so much, Elise, and everyone, definitely go check her out. She's incredible.
Elise: Thank you.
Diana: Okay. Such a fun episode with Elise. I just wanted to pick your brain a little bit because you are my matcha queen. I bow down to you as my matcha queen, and while I am the one with the master's in nutrition, you know way more about matcha and the science behind matcha and the nutritional benefits of matcha than I do. I was hoping that I can put you in the hot seat for a little bit if you're okay with that.
Elara: Let's do it. I guess one of the reasons why Diana is choosing to put me in the hot seat is I serve as the chief content creator for matcha.com. I have the really fun job of just researching and learning about all things matcha and then just turning it into blog posts, newsletters and ways that you can digest it and have agency over your own matcha journey. Let's get into it.
Diana: She just knows everything matcha. What would you say are the top three nutritional benefits of matcha?
Elara: It's a clean energy source. That's a big selling point for a lot of people.
Diana: What does that mean? What does clean energy source mean?
Elara: Clean energy source. Matcha has caffeine. I think maybe some people don't realize that, but what makes it different and cleaner say than a coffee caffeine source is that it has this other nutritional component called l-theanine, which binds to the caffeine, and your body processes this differently than it would a caffeine molecule from coffee. It's a lot slower. Instead of having that immediate rush and jitters and a bit of anxiety you get from coffee, there's this slower but probably longer-lasting effect of matcha energy.
Instead of having a two to three-hour spike you experience with coffee, studies have shown that matcha, it's more of an elegant slow bell curve, and it lasts for about six to eight hours. Then the other thing that's really amazing about it that a lot of people don't associate with something that's going to give you energy and give you focus during the day, it's great for your sleep health.
One of the reasons I started drinking matcha was to improve my sleep when I was working on overnight shifts, and being able to get a good night's rest during the daytime after pumping myself with caffeine. When I switched over to matcha from coffee and Red Bull, I had a huge difference in terms of the ability to sleep without disruptive sleep and just improving my quality of sleep. There's been one amazing study done over the course of 12 months that really supports the benefits of matcha around sleep health that you can check out on our website. I highly recommend reading it. I won't go into the details too much, but it's amazing. Then one of the other great things about matcha is it supports your body by just delivering a powerhouse of antioxidants.
Antioxidants is probably a word you're pretty familiar with as far as it being something positive and really beneficial for our bodies. When we have antioxidants, those fight free radicals in the body. You've maybe heard that free radicals are not so great, and they can trigger a variety of different chronic diseases as we age.
Matcha is going to be a really awesome daily defense, keeping yourself healthy and being supportive of against a range of different chronic conditions. This includes protecting, say, your heart health, protecting your mental health from Alzheimer's and dementia, protecting your bone health, so in a variety of ways.
It also has, because of being full of antioxidants, a lot of anti-aging properties. As you can tell, Diana, I can just rattle off more than three, but I guess those are the big three that come to my mind. Whenever I speak about matcha, what's amazing about it is that there's honestly three dozen and counting well-studied health benefits of matcha that depending on who I'm speaking to, I pivot, and I'll bring up different health benefits. For example, the other day I was speaking with my mother-in-law, and she was complaining to me about her arthritis. I was like, "Oh, well, did you know, actually matcha is really good for combating arthritis?"
It's a natural alleviator of inflammation. It's also great if you're suffering from edema, the swelling of joints and things like that, which tends to be a problem as you get older. It just really depends on who you're talking to, but there's such a broad range, and I think that's what makes matcha so awesome without there being a long list of downsides.
Diana: Definitely, it really is. Elara has written about matcha and basically every disease out there, and it's amazing because, in scientific studies, it just seems to be pretty beneficial for most things, which is great. I think one of the questions we get a lot is if I put milk in my Matcha, or if I put sugar in my Matcha, or if I do this to my matcha, am I going to ruin the health benefits? Can you speak a little bit about like, are we ruining the health benefits by doing any of those things?
Elara: I'm not going to recommend you put say, 32 to 36 grams of sugar in your matcha every time you have it. Even though, you know what? Once in a while when you do that, it's fine. I'm a big proponent of everything in moderation, but as far as what the studies show, it's a bit of a mixed bag. What I would say stands apart is when you focus on the peer-reviewed studies, you're not going to see a huge impact on the type of milk that you're mixing with your matcha.
If you say, by accident you've boiled your water and added your matcha, yes, it's going to make it a bit more bitter, and it's going to break down a little bit of the caffeine content, the l-theanine, the chlorophyll, but altogether you're still getting a huge amount of the benefits. I wouldn't focus so much on that. What's amazing about matcha compared to say, traditional green tea is you're actually ingesting the plant.
You're ingesting these stone ground, finely ground powder that is these young green tea leaves. Sorry, you just reminded me of this. We have a colleague who he doesn't usually prepare matcha with hot or cold water. He'll literally just take a teaspoon of matcha and put it in his mouth and then grab water, take a couple gulps of water, and that's how he has it. I guess the whole thing is that no matter what, it's going to be beneficial and just find what works for you.
Diana: This makes me just think about, I feel like we should identify for someone who doesn't know what matcha is, why is matcha “better” than green tea? I'm going to put better in quotations because I think we don't have to go on the better route, but what is matcha? How has it grown, and why does it have more l-theanine, more antioxidants than some other teas?
Elara: Yes, first off, green tea, loose-leaf green tea and matcha, they come from the same plant. What makes them different is how they're grown, how they're manufactured and processed and prepared and then ingested. Rolling back the clock, when matcha is grown compared to green tea, matcha is shade grown for the last couple weeks of its life. Then with matcha, farmers, at least when we're talking about the traditional matcha powder coming from Japan, which is largely considered the highest quality matcha, people are handpicking the youngest brightest greenest green tea leaves.
They're not using the stem of the plant or any other parts of the plant. It's the youngest, best of the best. That's usually the first harvest. That's what usually makes up a ceremonial grade matcha. Then you take these leaves, they're flash oxidized, very fast, not a long process, and then they're stone ground for a long period of time, with these specific mechanisms, like I say, stone ground because it's literally like these giant stones, versus a green tea that's a loose leaf.
They're oxidizing it usually for a little bit of a longer period of time, and also there are older leaves. It's not shade grown, so it can actually just be sun-grown, let's say, the whole time. They use different parts of the plant. Then actually, they oxidize it, and then they roll them together. It's rolled versus being made into this fine green tea powder.
Diana: That was such a beautiful breakdown of the process. Is there anyone that matcha isn't right for? Is there anyone that should be concerned about drinking matcha, any dangers or risks associated with matcha?
Elara: One thing to note is that if you're pregnant or if you're breastfeeding, you can drink matcha, that's fine. Once again, going back to the fact that matcha has caffeine, generally, caffeine is not recommended for children under the age of 12. Of course, we know that a lot of kids drink lots of energy drinks, they drink lots of sodas, they have lots of candies that contain caffeine. That being said, it still isn't a great idea for kids under the age of 12 to be having caffeine. I would be a little bit careful with over-serving matcha to any children.
Then if you're on any prescription medications, I think it's always good to err on the side of caution and just mention it to your healthcare provider or a trusted practitioner and just say, "Hey, I'm thinking of making matcha part of my daily routine. What do you think?" Because, yes, no studies have pointed towards matcha having any severe negative side effects, but I would say err on the side of caution. Usually, when people have any negative side effects of having too much matcha, it's associated with the caffeine content in matcha.
Generally speaking, as an adult, you want to try and stay under 400 milligrams of caffeine a day. If you end up having, say, six cups of matcha, you might end up feeling some of these caffeine side effects where that could be more of an upset stomach, a little bit of a runny tummy effect. You could end up having a little bit of a headache, feeling a little bit nauseous, just generally feeling unwell, but there's going to be nothing severe happening as far as kidney failure, anything like that.
That being said, I do think more studies need to be done if you're on one to multiple prescription medications. That's why I'd always speak with your healthcare practitioner, especially if you're being medicated for any sort of chronic disease. I wouldn't necessarily recommend matcha as the main line of defense if you're suffering from any chronic disease. I consider it to be supportive, a complimentary therapy.
Diana: Such a good answer. Thank you for being just our resident encyclopedia. Is there anything else that you want people to know about matcha? Are there any closing statements? We have so much information. You have studied this and researched this and written about this. I know that there's a lot of information out there that you could probably speak on this for hours, but is there any last words or things that you just want people to understand or know about matcha?
Elara: I guess the thing I'll leave you with is the answer to the question, when is the best time to drink matcha? I think for myself, and this is different for everyone else, but I'll just share, I think the best time to drink matcha is in the morning before a workout. Matcha makes for an amazing pre-workout. It actually just helps your blood flow, get everything going and improves your memory, your focus. If you wake up, and you're not in the mood to workout, if you have your matcha in about 20 to 30 minutes, it's going to put that frown upside down, you're going to be happy and stoked to get to the gym. I would say I recommend having matcha as a pre-workout in the morning, and it could have a drastic impact on your daily routine and other habits that you're doing.
Diana: You're amazing. Thank you for answering all of our questions, all of my questions. You just know so much about matcha. You are such an expert, and I appreciate that you're my bestie.
Elara: Stop it. You're making me blush, Diana. I'm going to put you in the hot seat next time we're going to do. We're going to do rapid fire of different recipes and whatnot.
Diana: Oh gosh. Okay. I am ready. [laughs] Thank you so much for listening to this episode about matcha. We hope that you guys are inspired to test out some matcha lattes or baking with matcha, and we will see you next time.
Elara: If you have any other questions about matcha, feel free to drop it in the comments below, and we'll be happy to answer them.
Speaker: Sip, savor and live well with new episodes of The Matcha Guardians every Wednesday. Follow our show for free on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you're listening right now. Leave your questions and comments below. Find us on Instagram @thematchaguardians or click on matcha.com.